Tuesday, June 17, 2008

Iran! Iran – So Far Aw-a-a-y!

Did Iran this about the USA?

'Hopefully the...leadership will take a different position than the one they've taken in the past, which is basically, who cares what the free world says, we're going to — we'll go our own way.'

Did the USA say this about Iran?

'Human rights are being extensively violated...setting up secret prisons, abducting persons, trials and secret punishments without any regard to due process, extensive tappings of telephone conversations, intercepting private mail and frequent summons to police and security centers have become commonplace and prevalent.'

Answers to the comments section please...

129 comments:

lostkarkeys said...

Yassum, Elroyticus Maximus, we are indeed apparently being railroaded into yet another conflict with more of those 'Goddam-Ayrabbes'
...this particular mob DO have more oil reserves, these Iranese-peeples, don't they?

Elroy said...

Less than the Saudis, O Keylostus Dopeymax, but more than the Iraqis.

If the yanks do start on the Iranians then it's goodnight Irene in a rub-us-out stylee. It seems to me to be a self-fulfilling prophesy by a bunch of Rapture-tors that have taken over the WH. They create armageddonoutahere and then say 'See? The Big Book was right! Told you so!'

I wonder if the people of Israel are aware of the US agenda? That they are be engineered in into a position whereby they must renounce their faith and ascend to the heavens or be grilled alive on earth? They don't really think that they get all those toys and all that cash for nuthin'?

It is pretty scary right now –

'Leading neocon Daniel Pipes (director of the Middle East Forum) said in an interview posted Wednesday at National Review Online, that if Barack Obama is elected, George Bush would attack Iran in the remaining ten weeks of his term.

“Should the Democratic nominee win in November, President Bush will ‘do something.’ and should it be Mr. McCain who wins, he’ll ‘punt,’ and let Mr. McCain decide what to do.

He called on powers such as Russia and China to prevent a US unilateral strike by helping Washington increase pressure on Tehran. “Look, if you don’t want an American attack, then you have to join us in being very serious with the Iranians and making clear to them we will attack if they don’t stop.”

Later in the interview, Pipes commented that Israel’s nuclear capability is “substantial.”

Read this
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/06/i-thought-we-didnt-negotiate-with.html

And this
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/13/9596/

Eek! Albanya is looking pretty good.

Frznagn said...

Since nobody else answered the questions, I guess I could give it a shot.

Did Iran this about the USA?

Don't think so. Probably Britain or France.

Did the USA say this about Iran?

No. The reverse is true I'm sure.

How'd I do?

Anonymous said...

Frznagn, you are 50% Correct. Care try again?

Cheers

Elroy

Frznagn said...

Not really. It ain't that exciting.

wingless said...

Yassum, Elroyticus Maximus, we are indeed apparently being railroaded into yet another conflict with more of those 'Goddam-Ayrabbes'
----
Not Ayrabbes, Aryans... Iranians are not Arabs, not in language, culture or anything else but religion.

As for he who made the oil argument, it simply does not make sense. The war with Iraq hasn't yielded a profit and never will.
1. Because was is so damn expensive (the cost of just a 5 second burst from a tank or humvee mounted heavy machine gun would be a signifigant expenditure for most families)

2. Because the oil profits stay IN COUNTRY. Oil IS the Iraqi economy - I've seen figures as low as 40% and as high as 90%.

You don't spent a trillion dollar to make a billion. The war for oil angle just does not make sense.

It makes even less sense when you consider that the greatest reserve of oil, and America's #1 source for oil is (DRUM ROLL) CANADA!

Yes, right here in Canada we have a reserve many say is MUCH bigger than Saudi Arabia (and we've explored Alberta mainly, wait till they start exploring the Northern territories!). I believe it is the #2 proven reserve in the world.

All this said - war for oil makes no sense economically. The USA Went to war in IRaq because just about every leading Democrat as well as Republican, not to mention the intelligence agencies of much of the world clearly stated that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction (500 tonnes of yellow cake anyone? Goes down nice with heavy water)... Bush and company simply tooks their threats and turned the umteenth "final chance warning" into action...

He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

“There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.


“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .”
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. “[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein… now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

wingless said...

I should elaborate on the first comment - yes Iranians are Aryans. They are descendants of the early Aryan tribes. Iran means "Land of the Aryans".

Apparently the Brand (the Aryan Brotherhood) missed this point when naming their 'outfit'...

Elroy said...

‘Yassum, Elroyticus Maximus, we are indeed apparently being railroaded into yet another conflict with more of those 'Goddam-Ayrabbes'


Indeed we are.

‘----
Not Ayrabbes, Aryans... Iranians are not Arabs, not in language, culture or anything else but religion.’

Yeah, I know, they’re Persians, but if you would care to look you’ll see that it was not I that called then ‘Goddam-Ayrabbes’ but my erstwhile interlocutor Lostkarkeys. Your apologies may be accepted if presented in triplicate.

‘As for he who made the oil argument, it simply does not make sense. The war with Iraq hasn't yielded a profit and never will.’

The ‘oil argument’ goes further than a simple profit and/or loss on investment equation, although that is part of it. Apart from guaranteeing access to the sort of light sweet crude so beloved of Exxon et al, the US also gained territory and so, therefore, power in the region which is crucial as the demands of India, China and Russia ramp up. The US has to be a player, and so needed bases in the Gulf and a pliant client state.

‘Because war is so damn expensive (the cost of just a 5 second burst from a tank or humvee mounted heavy machine gun would be a signifigant expenditure for most families)’

Strange, then, that this was never, ever mentioned in the run up to war – the hawks gave every impression that it would be relatively cheap if not revenue neutral. They must have known the true costs but chose to hide them. Why?

’Because the oil profits stay IN COUNTRY. Oil IS the Iraqi economy - I've seen figures as low as 40% and as high as 90%. You don't spent a trillion dollar to make a billion.’

Again, it’s not JUST the oil, but the new oil laws were written by BearingPoint with no input from the Iraqis whatsoever and require the Iraqi state-owned oil company to enter profit-sharing agreements that would see about 85% of profit returned to the foreign oil corporations, as opposed to the 15% that the rest of OPEC and most of the world operate on.

Anyhoo, it was never about oil some much as control of the oil. Now the US can control who gets the oil and how much, and the war has halved the production levels which has led to record profits – supply and demand and all that.

Never forget who runs the USA – oil men.

See: http://www.gregpalast.com/its-still-the-oilsecret-condi-meeting-on-oil-before-invasion/

‘The war for oil angle just does not make sense.’



It does if you are an oil company. You seem to be of the quaint opinion that the Bush administration are men of honour – they are not. The only ones to well out of this war are the military-industrial complex and big oil, and the POTUS and VP are up to their ears in both. As the man said, ‘Ya dance with the one that brung ya’.

‘It makes even less sense when you consider that the greatest reserve of oil, and America's #1 source for oil is (DRUM ROLL) CANADA!

Yes, right here in Canada we have a reserve many say is MUCH bigger than Saudi Arabia (and we've explored Alberta mainly, wait till they start exploring the Northern territories!). I believe it is the #2 proven reserve in the world.

All this said - war for oil makes no sense economically.’

A Canuk! Welcome to another far-flung outpost of the commonweath!

Anyhoo, your oil is all very well (Ho ho!) but you do not say what form it is in; whatever, it is still underground, and big oil and big oil countries have discovered that underground is the most profitable place for it to be; furthermore, mining in the frozen wastes is mighty expensive and mighty slow, and big oil wants its profits NOW!

The US has plenty of oil in the ground to dig up any old time it feels like it, and that does not include off-shore or in ANWR. Why doesn’t it? Ask Chevron.

‘The USA Went to war in IRaq because just about every leading Democrat as well as Republican, not to mention the intelligence agencies of much of the world clearly stated that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction’

You really aren’t getting the memos, are you? The thing is, just about every leading Democrat as well as Republican, not to mention the intelligence agencies of much of the world was relying on intelligence that was either false and known to be false or highly unreliable and known to be highly unreliable.

‘(500 tonnes of yellow cake anyone? Goes down nice with heavy water)...’

Yeah, um, everybody knew about that stuff. Except you, apparently. It was no secret. And it is no smoking gun either.

‘Bush and company simply tooks their threats and turned the umteenth "final chance warning" into action...

He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998’

Remind me where he got those weapons again? Oh, that’s right….

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.



Not, I trust you note, invasion, occupation, looting, murder and wholesale in indiscriminate destruction of the entire Iraq society.

‘“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.


Yet…yet…no one can find it. Funny that, huh?


“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.’


No one ever said he was nice.

“There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.’

Looks like those reports were wrong, just like Blix, Ritter et al said they were.

‘“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.’



‘“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.




“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.



“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.



“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.



“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .”
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002, 



“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. “[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein… now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003/

Again, the intelligence they going on was wrong, but not only that it was deliberately wrong. Lies and bollocks, the lot of it. Go read up on the Office For Special Plans, the Downing Street memo, etc.

The thing is, Saddam tried to negotiate but the US and UK didn’t let him. The war could have so easily been avoided, but no – war is what they wanted. There were no WMD, there never where, and those in the loop knew it.

The war, however, has generated great profits for big oil and the MIC, and put the US back in the geopolitical grand game. The Chinese want oil and India wants oil, and the US needs to control how much they get lest they get the industrial and military drop on the US and it winds up as the North American version of South America.

There you go, champ! And thanks for asking Elroy!

Elroy said...

PS I think the Aryan Brotherhood were taking their cue from a equally misguided Austrian Jew.

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